Two Years After FIRE: 8 Lessons Learned from Early Retirement with Maggie Tucker

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[00:00:00] 


Introduction and Welcome Back
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Maggie, welcome back to the Mindful Fire podcast. I'm so glad to have you back. 

Maggie Tucker: Thank you, Adam. I'm excited to be here. I love how you just took a deep breath before we started, by the way. 

Adam Coelho: It is the Mindful Fire podcast, so I got to try to live what I'm preaching.

Maggie Tucker: It was very on brand and it made me stop and take a deep breath, which I need to do more often. 

Adam Coelho: I'm glad to hear it was well received. Welcome back. 


Life Updates and New Beginnings
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Adam Coelho: I'm so excited to dive into an update episode, right? So those who are listening will have just heard you last week on the podcast. And as we were talking about before we started recording, 

We recorded that quite a while ago, and for one reason or another, I am just getting to publish it, and it's been so long that you now have a new podcast with a different name, the Inside Out Money podcast, and people can certainly find you there, but. I'm really excited about this episode because a lot has changed in your life and in the world since we recorded that last [00:01:00] episode.

So people can get a sense last week for what you were thinking eight months out and how you actually made financial independence and retiring early happen in your life. And today we're going to get the update. We're going to see how you're doing. And I think it's been about two years since you retired.

Is that right? 

Maggie Tucker: Yeah, I think I'm about a week away from our exact two year anniversary. 

Adam Coelho: Very cool. Bring us up to speed. remind the audience a little bit about who you are, your journey and what you're up to since you retired. 

Maggie Tucker: Sure. So I retired at the age of 41 with my husband on the exact same day.

He was 43 at the time. So we are now. This should be simple math, but I'm trying to think when our birthdays actually are. I'm 43. I think he's 45. And we, early retired, we have three kids between the two of us. We're a blended family. Three girls that are in the 12 to 15 range. We're dealing with [00:02:00] teenagers, which is a whole different podcast episode and topic.

Or another podcast.like you said, just hit our two year mark and we both had 20 year careers in corporate America. We're a bit tired, burnout, wanting to live a different life, spend meaningful, present, engaged time with our kids and ourselves and our families and each other. And we started to realize we could afford to do that.

And so we made it happen over the course of, I can't even remember what we talked about on that podcast, part one, but I'm sure we talked about how we made that happen in some way, and now we're two years into it, and it's been a fascinating journey and evolution and just tons of different learnings over the past couple years.

Adam Coelho: Very cool. Congratulations again on making that happen. People who are listening to this have that goal as well, right? To at least build financial independence, to give them the options to do whatever they want. [00:03:00] You chose to do the RE, the retire early. Some people might choose to downshift into some lower paying career that has more meaning.

There's certainly a million different options. And that's what I love about this. Recently, I didn't mention this to you, but I went to the economy conference, which was my first ever fire conference and or first ever fire event. And it was just so fascinating to see all the different ways that people are designing and living their life using the options created by fire.

It's pretty cool. 

Maggie Tucker: Yeah, I'm jealous you got to go. We were at Camp Fi the week before that. I think many of the same people were then headed to Camp Coelho. Economy, but I'm a big fan of Diana Miriam and what she's created with Economy, even though I've never been, I'm still a fan of it. It always lands during my kids volleyball season.

And we may get into it today, but in this stage of life, that is our priority. And so I, as much as I want to go and it looks like a fun fire party, I have been booked every year since I [00:04:00] knew about it. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah. No, it happens. Yeah, exactly. No, And it was my first ever fire event and it was super fun.

And I had to explain to people like, Hey, you have a podcast for four years about fire, but you have never been to any in person meetups. It's like, I had a baby and I had a wife who was pregnant and we had another baby. It's like, it's tricky to, to.

Prioritize, peacing out for a weekend to go to a party about money when your wife's home with a baby. 

Maggie Tucker: Yeah, and those events are awesome, but you can learn and do so much without ever. The community aspect, I think, is what's critical to in person, human interaction and engagement and friendships you can make, but you can also do so much remote.

I think to that point, there's just a, I wouldn't put for the people, that's a tough life stage you were in and for the people who are in that, and I have my own, FOMO of like, oh, this always lands during volleyball season, but I have to remind myself, you, there's a lot you can still do even without those things, 

Adam Coelho: yeah, absolutely. And I [00:05:00] think to your point, you're choosing, that's the, you said it's the priority of this time, right? Being there for your girls during volleyball season is the priority, right? And being there for my baby and wife and other son was the priority. Again, this is all about choosing the life that you want to live and what's most important to you.

And then using the financial resources to make that happen. 


Lessons Learned in Two Years of FIRE
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Adam Coelho: So you said there are some lessons that you've had over the last two years. Would love to explore those. So you take it away, share what you've learned over this last two years of being early retired. 

Maggie Tucker: Okay. It's funny. I recently gave a talk at Camp Phi, speaking of events and.

One of the, and in preparation for that talk, I really did put some very organized thought into like, what have I learned and observed and what's working well? The kind of stuff I actually used to spend a lot of time doing at work, right? You spend a lot of [00:06:00] time forced into reflection periods because there's review time and you've got to send an update to somebody or whatever the seasons of the cycles of different things at work are, but it forces a routine around checking in with how things are doing.

And when work is taken away from you, you don't have to do that anymore, and I hadn't really spent enough time doing it, and it's a really valuable process, so I'm glad that, that presentation at Camp Fi forced me to step back and take some time to think and reflect, and reminded me I will continue to do that without having a presentation force me to, but I summarized about eight things.

that I had learned. So I'm happy to go through all of them or just the highlights if you'd like. 

Adam Coelho: Let's do it. Let's go through the eight learnings of Two years of retiring early. 

Maggie Tucker: Yeah, so the first one, so the first one is there's nothing to be afraid of and I say that because I was afraid of a lot.

[00:07:00] I was just very afraid to leave my job. I probably was most afraid about it. regretting leaving my job slash losing my identity and then also running out of money. And being two years in, the biggest thing I've realized is there's nothing to be afraid of. The, my biggest fears, none of them have come to realization.

And I realized on the running out of money piece, I'm only two years in, so it's very early, but it just, you start to really, you leave a scarcity mindset and start to shift into an abundance mindset, or at least I have. And I've seen, I'm actually making money fast. And I say that through, the market and even just my savings account and, getting 5.

5 percent interest and things like that. I've got more money now than when I retired two years ago and I haven't, I lost a very lucrative, two very lucrative paychecks coming into this house between me and [00:08:00] my husband and so that's a great feeling and just a realization of all the stuff I was the most afraid of has not come to fruition and when I talk to people now who are considering something like this I see all the stuff they're afraid of and it's just sometimes you just got to be on the other side of it to realize there's nothing to be afraid of.

Adam Coelho: Is there anything that you did to shift from that scarcity mindset to the abundance mindset? 

Maggie Tucker: So yeah, I wouldn't say there's anything specific we did. I think it's just we actually took the plunge from, good jobs where we had a lot of rapport built up and made good salaries. And we've seen, on the other side, that none of those things came to fruition. And I think when, even when we took the plunge, we started realizing we were more scared of never having tried this.

And we always knew we could go back and get jobs similar ish again if we had to. [00:09:00] And so we started to be more afraid of not making this change in our lives than of actually making it. And that's what finally, I think, pushed us over a lot of fear to make the change. And then, the biggest mindset shift was just we actually did it.

We took the plunge and life has shown us through, a multitude of experiences over the past two years, that there was nothing to be afraid of. As soon as I left early on, and then as more time passed, I didn't regret leaving. And I thought I should have done this sooner, if anything.

Adam Coelho: Yeah, no, it's a great point. I think that you do have to make the leap, you do have to take the plunge to actually know what's on the other side, right? You can think about all the scenarios, you can have all the worries of, oh, I might run out of money, or I might not be happy, or I might not this, that, and the other.

And until you actually do it, There's no way for you to really know. And, I'm saying that as a person who hasn't [00:10:00] taken the plunge, but, I've had a lot of conversations with people who, are very worried about, not being happy on the other side or getting to the point where they have financial independence, but they are worried about, the future.

So afraid of that next chapter because they really don't know what they actually want. And so I'm a big fan of getting clear on what you actually want your post fi life to look like, taking steps now to actually Practice it and try it and figure out, do I actually like this thing or do I, is it maybe a little bit different?

And then, I'm, what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to build this life now, and then when, the time comes to make the leap, I'm, it's just like continuing on the path that I'm already on. 

Maggie Tucker: Yeah, I agree exactly, Adam. And I think the summary of that is like, there's just only so much you can do to prepare.

And I wholeheartedly believe in like not overthinking it at some [00:11:00] point. I think there's some value in putting thought into exactly what you said, which is thinking about what you want your life to look like on the other side. but not getting caught up in all of the unknowns and the fear and the, what ifs, because you can't predict that stuff.

Even if you had stayed working you can't predict what's going to happen. 

Adam Coelho: And so at 

Maggie Tucker: some point there's just only so much, it's only worth putting so much energy against that. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah, that's true. And then, when you got to the other side, it was very clear that there's nothing to be afraid of.

There's, All these things that I was worried about haven't actually happened, and things are better than I expected. 

Maggie Tucker: Yeah. On that point, one of my big learnings was just, and you said this a second ago, but was just the experimenting and pivoting. I did this a lot at work, and the particular types of roles I worked in anyways, but, Of all those things you're afraid of and can't predict and all this stuff like you, you have to remember you can pivot at any time.

And I had to remind [00:12:00] myself, I can pivot at any time. And in the current world I'm in where I don't work for anyone else, I have. I say, I shouldn't even say 99%. I do have three kids and I feel like I work for them, but I have a lot of freedom to change things up and it would take me, I was comparing it to like when I was at work, it would take me a long time to be able to optimize and pivot because there was a lot of bureaucracy and I couldn't just like, on a dime change something, but I can do that now, right?

I, even when I've been like stressed out about certain volunteer roles I have, and I've had multiple people remind me like, you can stop any of that tomorrow, right? It doesn't mean I want to just quit on something and not see something through, but I can. I have way more freedom to experiment and pivot, and I can only plan ahead and anticipate so much, but I can constantly adjust with real time data of what is happening around me.

and what I like about it and what I don't like about [00:13:00] it. 

Adam Coelho: I love that. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. All right, so that's two learnings. What what else? 

Maggie Tucker: That's two. A big one is to be patient and kind of myself. I got this advice from many people before we made this plunge at events like Camp Fi that was invaluable, that it was going to take 12 to 18 to 24 months to feel like Normal again.

And that there were, I was gonna go through all these weird feelings, even though you think on on the other side of leaving a stressful 20 year corporate America job, I should be like, oh my gosh, this is like vacation. It didn't feel like that. And I think just a big learning, and again, I'm passing this along 'cause people told me this and I've experienced it verbatim myself.

It takes time to detox, to shed your old programming, to rewire yourself after. 30 plus years of other adults telling you what to do, parents, schools, bosses, after 30 plus years of [00:14:00] hustle and grind. Before I was working in corporate America, I worked for a long time in other jobs throughout high school and college, and I worked a lot.

And it takes a lot of time to deprogram and detox that. And To shift from focusing on other people to focusing on myself, I went through all these feelings of ennui, which I might have talked about on the first episode. It'll be a surprise to me when I hear it, too, because it's been a while, but.

You just have to, it takes time to let go of the old you and walk into the new you and I think throughout that time you need to be very patient and kind to yourself and, one day a switch will just flip and things will be a lot better and you have a lot of time to face yourself.

Like, work was a huge distraction from having to face yourself. myself on many things. And when you strip [00:15:00] that away, you're all of a sudden, you have time to like, think and feel and it just, it's a lot. And I think you just have to be kind to yourself throughout that. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah, that, that's a great point.

I I think that's where mindfulness comes in. Mindfulness is, as I think about it, it's a kind, curious awareness, right? You're going to have a lot of things that come up that, stories that you've been telling yourself, ways of operating, habits that might not be the most useful.

Mindfulness allows you to see those, bring those into awareness, and just observe them with a kind, curious awareness, right? It's not good or bad, right or wrong. You just observe them. It's coming up, right? So can I see that? Can I be present with it? And then choose what do I want to do about it? Do I want to keep doing this or do I want to choose a new way, a new story, a new path forward?

Maggie Tucker: Yeah, that is very important. And I even [00:16:00] look back at the last couple years and I've been on and off my meditation wagon, as I say. And it's equally as important. in early retirement as it was when I was working. Arguably more important because again I've got less to distract myself by that I had when I was at work.

Or distracts the wrong word but I think a really demanding job hides a lot of things and covers up a lot of things and just doesn't allow you the luxury to even delve into many things. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah, no, it's true. And, what you said made me really, what you said made me think of my experience on this period of time I'm off work, and I went from a very challenging situation with a very challenging boss, and I Then went and took some time off and I immediately [00:17:00] replaced that boss with myself, right?

I became the challenging boss and I was just like, gotta go, gotta make this happen, gotta do this, and this. And I, it took me about a week and a half or so probably, and I'm, still ongoing, but that immediate like awareness of like, wait a second, this is not.

healthy. It's not what I want. 

Maggie Tucker: It's not what that time off was meant to be, right? 

Adam Coelho: Not what that time off was meant to be. It's not how I envision wanting to live my life. And now I have this freedom and space to try to do that. And here I am falling into this old pattern just replacing one bad boss with myself as the bad boss.

And it took me a little bit of time to be like, okay, actually like, let me. Let go of that. Let me just ease up and use this time for what it's meant to be to give myself some space to decompress and relax and heal in a lot of ways. And [00:18:00] as I started to do that, things became a little bit easier.

And I'm still finding, a couple months into this, that that still pokes its head out here and there, but it's interesting to hear that it's, it's a longer process that once you remove this, and I've heard this from a lot of people, like once you remove work from your life especially if you're in a challenging, demanding environment, it's going to take a long time to allow your nervous system to reset and find a new balance point.

Maggie Tucker: Exactly, Adam. And I didn't give that enough kind of credit at the time. I heard it, but I almost, it's like you got to experience something yourself to really believe it and just believe it. And so I'll shift into my next two learnings because they're exactly related to what you're talking about right now.

So one of the learnings was, and I quote my kids on this, but like to do less because you're doing too much. I don't know if you've ever heard the term, like, you're doing too [00:19:00] much or you're doing the most. Kids like to say that. And I am, and I always have been. And when I was at work, I loved the book, What Got You Here Won't Get You There.

And it was about, I don't know if you ever read it, but it was about, like, moving into management and what makes you a successful individual contributor does not make you a successful leader and manager. If anything, they're very different. And I just love that book. And I often would recommend it and coach people through it.

Yeah. But I felt the same way in this, What made me successful in my career will not make me successful in this next phase of my life where I'm actually trying to relax and trying to do less. And I became successful because I was, doing the most and doing too much. And, but I've now almost like, reach the finish line if you will and it's hard to like sit still and pick a new direction and I was feeling like very and still am at times like right now is a very busy season for a bunch of reasons but like [00:20:00] feeling very overwhelmed and over committed even in retirement and then almost even more annoyed that I'm feeling that way in early retirement and I have to remind myself like I'm actually in charge this time around, just like I was saying earlier, I've got complete agency over my life, I'm responsible for setting the boundaries that I want to build the life I want, and I need to schedule, like, for me, I need to schedule in time to, like, relax and do nothing and prioritize all the reasons I wanted to do this.

For in the first place and the life I envisioned I wanted and I give you a really quick example of that like with Greg We started scheduling these like adventure days once a week because we often are pulled in different directions But like doctor's appointments and stuff We're each individually doing but we were like, but we have all this time and flexibility while the kids are at school at least and so We would schedule adventure days and like try to go on a hike every other one and then try to do something like in our local city for the other one so we, one day would, [00:21:00] we've just been like exploring parts of Atlanta we hadn't seen and going to the Beltline and having a drink in the middle of the day and going out for lunch and, walking 10 miles on the Beltline one day and but if we don't schedule those things then We, it won't happen.

We'll just end up in this, the hamster wheel of retired life, which is a little bit different than the hamster wheel of corporate life, but many of the same, many things in common, I would say. And you can catch yourself just not being as mindful and, you Focused and present about what you wanna do.

So that was just a, that was a huge learning for me. And I'll shift briefly into a related one, which is I need to like curb my hustling and chasing because on the same spirit of like, what got you here won't get you there. I'm a type A highly driven person. I keep I would keep catching myself even with like the podcast trying to [00:22:00] build or monetize something Like I have an idea about something and then I would like start to go down the mental or physical path of doing it.

And then being like, no, I don't, like, I'm not trying to make money right now. I actually don't want to make money right now. It doesn't help me because it makes my health insurance cost more. And like, it just, it's not helpful to me at this point in my life. And, but I had to constantly stop myself and say like, I don't need to accomplish something.

I don't need to prove anything to anyone anymore. Like, I have enough. Chasing more would be a waste of my time and energy. And that is still something I, like, catch myself frequently doing. It's just because I can do something doesn't mean I should. And I just, that's been a huge learning for me of, like, I've got to, like, consciously stop my hustling and chasing mindset.

Turn it [00:23:00] off and mute it when I can. When I see it creeping up, 

Adam Coelho: I resonate with that so much. I really resonate with that so much. Yeah, and I I had Doc G on the other day. And we were talking about this exact thing, the idea of what is enough and feeling enough and how, without, a conscious effort, we're going to just constantly be in this hamster wheel of more and more money, more and more achievement.

And it's like, it applies to every aspect of life. And, but for me personally, like this idea of, chasing achievement and hustling and always trying to, I'll have an idea as well. And I'll just like, my mind will just go boom, boom out into the future. Like, okay what could this be?

And that's, in some ways that's great. And it got me here, but it won't necessarily get me where I need to go next and isn't necessarily helpful. And but it's with a whole [00:24:00] lifetime. Of operating in that way and making, being successful in doing that, it's really hard to turn that off.

And just this idea that you mentioned before about like, what got me here won't get you there, or what got you here won't get you there. Yeah, I think that makes a ton of sense and, people that I talk to that have reached financial independence, they've accumulated they've built wealth, they've accumulated money.

They've built wealth and they've gotten to the goal, but now the next chapter of their life actually requires something different. It's not more, extreme frugality, it's not more hustling at work to get that next promotion to make more money to reach the path faster. It's actually turning inward and asking like, tough questions about like, what do I actually want my life to look like?

And how do I start to make those things happen? is there anything that's helped you [00:25:00] turn the volume down on that kind of hustle mentality, that accomplishment? The word that's coming to mind is addiction, but I don't know if that's how extreme it is for you, but like, how, like, yeah, anything that you've done practices or learnings or books or anything that's helped you let go of that hustle a little bit.

Maggie Tucker: That's a really good question. I, it's similar to something you were asking earlier where, the biggest thing that's helped me is probably just the ongoing experience of a, the realization. And then. B. as it's happening, noticing it, and checking in with myself about it. But I would say, meditation in general, I think, helps with that because it definitely makes me more mindful and thoughtful and engaged in my day to day life.

But no, there's not like one silver bullet. I'll shift to another learning that, that is a little bit of the answer to that. You couldn't have lobbed [00:26:00] that up better for me, Adam. But, and it's going to maybe sound a little counterintuitive, but like, hear me out.


The Importance of Structure and Routine
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Maggie Tucker: So another big learning over the past couple years is the value of structure and routine in my life, but I think almost anyone's life.

And I to turn that phrase around of like, I love the, what got you here won't get you there. In this case, what got me here will get me there. So there was the one thing that I can like, there's a lot of things that are valuable about work, but the one thing that, I really like looked at that I had when I was working that I didn't have when I retired was structure and routine.

And I was realizing that, I can still have my freedom, but within a framework. And with some, intended structure and routine that I can adjust whenever I want, but that was a huge one to me. And so with that structure and routine, and this kind of goes to what you were just asking, I [00:27:00] now schedule my workouts in.

I, I would like to say I schedule my meditations, but I'm like a little looser on that actually happening when it gets scheduled. But I've got a routine around when I work out now and that's putting me first and that's a piece that's not about, the hustle and grind and trying to chase something, or you could argue it is, but it's something that's important to me.

And putting in place some things around structure and routine, but still keeping it loose within a framework. I like the term freedom within a framework is, has been really helpful to me. Because what I didn't feel like when I left work was that I all of a sudden had eight to ten extra hours every day.

I very quickly was like, where's my time going? I had a little bit of like decision fatigue because when you wake up in the morning, the options are endless. I'm a terrible journaler, but I almost wish I'd written this stuff down. If I told you, the things I would wake up and all of a sudden, plan for [00:28:00] the day, while, in that, like, 20 minutes when I'm laying in bed and, haven't quite gotten up, I'd come up with the craziest idea, like, just something that wasn't on the radar in any way and would just derail my entire day.

And it would be something that was like, I'm gonna go, Rebuild my deck and start this like really intense project that I haven't fully thought through and my husband, poor, my poor husband would like, he wakes up and is like pretty chill and doesn't have a lot of goals for the day, which is how it should be, I think, in retirement and I wake up and my mind is racing and I have a million things I want to do.

And so anyways the structured routine and Scheduling in and building in the things that are important to my own self care and relaxation and health and other priorities that I want to focus on have been a big win for me and something that I didn't give a lot of importance to in the beginning and now I'm just seeing the value in.

Like I am, I work better and I [00:29:00] do better on the stuff that matters to me. when I have a bit more structure and routine. And it requires some discipline and kind of intentionality to do that also. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It's, it seems counterintuitive that, Oh, I retired from this job that had all this structure and routine and I want to just do whatever I want.

But at the same time, the days fill up. As I said, I'm off work for a little bit of time now. It's amazing how the time while the kids are at school is over before you know it. And it's what did I actually do? And yeah I can relate a lot with things just pop into my head. I'm like, all right, I guess I'm going to go do that.

It's actually you have this, list of things that you said you wanted to do. Maybe you should think a little bit ahead and, put those things on your calendar so you can get to those and spend time doing those, whether they're productive or relaxing or, fitness and exercise or hiking, whatever it is, [00:30:00] you got to actually choose what you want to spend your time on.

Otherwise, you're just going to, however it happens as it passes. 

Maggie Tucker: Yeah. And it'll disappear very quickly to your point. And you're, you look back and you're like, what did I do? And I don't even mean what did I do in a sense of like accomplishment, like you need to accomplish something, but just where did my time go?

And did I feel good about it? And again, that's a huge learning from work of like, none of us for both, for where both of us work and worked, we weren't successful at work by just going into every day haphazardly and being like we'll just see what the day brings, we were successful because we did some level of, quarterly, semi annual planning, and we took time to step back and really look strategically at, What was working?

What wasn't working? Where we needed to go? Where we wanted? It's different for work, but you can take the same type of exercise and you can apply it to your personal life. And if you do, I think, You'll be much more successful 

Adam Coelho: and I think another thing that I've [00:31:00] noticed in my time away from work is just this Actually relates to my working career as well.

Just this feeling at the end of the day that like I never get enough, right? It's never enough. It's never enough progress. And that is exhausting and demoralizing to put it bluntly, but this lesson from this book called The Gap and the Gain. Have you read that? 

Maggie Tucker: I haven't read it, but I think I've heard of it.

I think it's on my reading list. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah. At the, at its core, it's basically, if you're comparing yourself to where you think you should be, you're always going to be miserable because you never go, it's like trying to walk to the, to run at the horizon. 

Maggie Tucker: It's just 

Adam Coelho: going to keep moving further and further out because it's an ideal.

But if you instead look backwards and appreciate the progress that you're making, the gains that you're making. Then you're going to feel a lot better and it's actually going to result in you [00:32:00] performing better and doing more of the things that you care about. And so during this time, I started off really yeah, it was in the gap as he calls it in the book.

I was, Oh, it's never enough. And I realized like, this is how I operate. at work all the time because there's a never ending supply of things to do and things that it could do or should do or whatever. The same thing applies at home, whether it's with a side hustle or, things around the house or appointments you got to make, whatever it is.

Once I started just like realizing, no, like I'm my, how do I want it? What am I envisioning for my like post fi life? And how can I practice it now? It's like, I want to be unrushed. I want to, do, pursue entrepreneurship because I want to not because I have to. I was like, all right, how can I actually shift to do more of this now?

It's like, I can, pick a few things that I want to do in a day and then like be done with [00:33:00] them and appreciate that I did that, right? I had this example a few weeks ago. I was going to write an email that I had been procrastinating on for a month. And when I sat down to do it, you It very quickly became a humongous email that was like, no one was ever going to read.

And I was like, man, I just spent all this time. I still didn't even get it done. But then I realized, wait a second, there's another way I could look at this. I did this thing I had been procrastinating on for months. I have all this content. It's long, but I can turn that into three or four or five emails or pieces of content.

Maggie Tucker: And actually like, I feel pretty good that I did this. I can appreciate that. I think, you, I think you keep inadvertently teeing me up for like one of additional learnings that I've had, but.

Tied to what you were just saying, one of my learnings was it's okay to focus on myself. I'm the boss. 


Reflecting on a Powerful Quote
---

Maggie Tucker: And if you'll indulge me, I just want to read a quick quote from someone else. I don't know [00:34:00] this guy. I don't know if I'm pronouncing this guy's name, right? But it's like Krumahoney. Krumahoney? I don't know.

C R U M A H O N E Y. He's on Instagram. He runs like a mile a day and sits in ice baths. Stuff I don't do. But he had this, he had, this was from this was the, I wrote this down from a reel that he created and I was like sitting there transcribing it because it was just so powerful to what I needed to remind myself and it's what you were just saying, Adam.

So he said, you might spend hours a day working and getting things done through someone else's orders, but how much authority do you have over you? People think they work all day long and are busy as ever, but if you took away the bosses, and the teachers, and the people giving you the to do list, how busy would you be working on yourself?

Because I know plenty of people that have no problem listening to someone else, but don't have the respect to meet their own expectations. It's sad that the It's sad that most people wake up early for work, but if it was to them, sorry, it's sad that most people wake up [00:35:00] early for work, but if it was up to them, they'd sleep the day away as a constant.

But you see some people out there do the hard things because they said so. And in the realm of becoming a better version of yourself, you are your only boss. 


Balancing Work and Personal Priorities
---

Maggie Tucker: I loved this quote because it's what you were just saying, right? Like, We do all this stuff at work, and arguably, like, the things at home, when we all of a sudden, have the time and have the freedom to do them, like, aren't quite getting done, and I say at home, but I don't even mean, like, cleaning your house and laundry, but that too, but the things that are, like, self care, and the things, you know, you want to focus, like, I want to focus more on my life.

That's it. health and fitness and friends and true relaxation, which I'm not great at. The relaxation part is the part I was saying I'm not great at. And it's like when someone else tells me something's a priority I'm on it like that, but I'm, I have trouble focusing on myself. And I have to remind myself, like, I'm the boss now. And so That [00:36:00] was a huge learning for me of, it's okay to focus on myself, I am the boss, and what I say matters to me, and that's what I will focus on. So if pickleball is a big priority to me, which it is lately, I have a really great time playing pickleball with a bunch of friends that I've been playing with during the day, which is lovely.

That's That is now one of my to dos, right? And I choose that and I just used to live in a world where it's like I wouldn't have prioritized that unless someone else told me I needed to go play pickleball two to three days a week. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah,you're spot on with that because it's a perfect example is meditation, right?

When I, when I have all the time in the world and I, say I'm on vacation, I have all the time in the world. I meditate less than when I have the structure and goes back to the other learning that you had. But I think what you're saying is like, we get to decide what's important to us.

And then we need to stick to the things that we told ourselves we were going to do because they're important [00:37:00] to us. It doesn't matter if this external authority figure is telling me that I should do it. I'm the boss now and I get to decide and I need to stick to it as if I was doing it for work. 

Maggie Tucker: Yeah, and it's also like to add another layer on there.

It doesn't matter if society and everyone around me has told me that's less important in terms of the world and prestige and identity than having a big fancy job and making lots of money and driving a nice car, right? Like, I'm having to redefine this, like what I call the new American dream to myself of What matters to me, right?

I knew it and I set it building up to retirement and it's what pushed me to actually early retire with my husband but I have to like reinforce that every day because back to some of the other points I made like every day my mind starts to pull me back into this like hustle culture because that's Not just how I'm wired, but how the world is wired in many [00:38:00] ways to perceive and give value to things.

And I need to unwire that in myself. 


Embracing Early Retirement
---

Maggie Tucker: And again, I'm gonna like, I'm gonna wrap up with my final point. We can wrap up however you want, but I just, this is my like final, if you've been keeping track, this is number eight. And it is tied to what I was just saying even of like, I want to be present in this phase of life.

I have spent some energy, especially in early retirement, almost being like sad about what I can't do. So I'm like, Oh, I can't make economy and I really want to. And like, that would be fun to me. And I can't go walk the El Camino, which I've heard so many great experiences about. I want to hike, the AT and other things while I'm young and still can.

And I can't do many of those things because I have three kids. And. And arguably I technically could still leave them, but I have three kids. I have [00:39:00] six years left with any of those kids left in my house. The youngest will be off to college in six years. The oldest will be off to college in three years, which is shocking to think about, but yes, in three years.

And so I've got. three, three years left with all my kids in the house. I've got six years left with any of the kids in my house. 


Cherishing Family Time
---

Maggie Tucker: And I really had to remind myself, like, this is why, this is one of the big reasons why we early retired, was to spend time with our kids, be more present and engaged, and it has panned out.

We've been available to do it's different in their teenage years than when they were younger, because they want to be, like, driven around a lot of places, and they've got plans, and they want to spend less time with you at times. But The times we do have with them, we are much more present and engaged than we ever were before.

And I want to lean into this phase of life and recognize like, yep, I can't travel long term, full time now, but that's okay. I'm going to focus on the one thing I can do during this phase of life for the next six years. I [00:40:00] have like, this was as of Camp Fi, which was like a month ago. I have 2, 288 days left before our last child graduates from high school.

So that is Like that's not a lot of time that's gonna fly. Think about how the last six years flew by and even just since COVID it's been like four years, right? That's flown by just in a in the blink of an eye. The next six years are not going to be that long and I want to enjoy this phase of life.

There will be future phases that Greg, my husband, and I can enjoy after this phase of life, which will be some longer term travel and other things, but I can't ever get this phase back, and I really, and I gotta remind myself that, because like, I know you've got two young kids, Adam, but like, There's days where you're not like, Oh, this is lovely.

I'm gonna, like, you probably spend a lot more days being, stressed out and tired and overwhelmed and somebody literally screaming at you or crying at you and [00:41:00] you have to like remind yourself this isn't going to last forever. And, I spent, I spend, like, 12 to 20 hours some weekends in a volleyball gym this time of year watching two of our kids play volleyball, and I love it, but I'm also, like, exhausted from it and tired of it, but, like, I know there's gonna be a time in a few years when I miss that, and I'm like, man, I'm gonna get, like, a little emotional saying it, but man, would I give anything to go back to that time, so I am really, I'm gonna sum this up before I really start crying on here, Adam, but, like, I want to lean into this phase of life and appreciate it because I won't be able to get it back and it'll be gone in six years.

in 2, 200 days about. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And it's so important and it's so easy to forget. It's so easy to forget. I [00:42:00] was laughing as you were, imagining what my life with two young kids looks like. And it is that, it is absolutely, it's chaos. Oh, it's chaos. Yeah. Like my son was losing it constantly yesterday.

He was just in a mood and he was just. Anything that popped into his head that wasn't what he expected, even though he was literally just making it up as he was going. He was just crying and losing his, losing it. And I was very frustrated. I was very patient. For a while, like we were at a birthday party and I was very patient helping him and giving him breaks and things like that.

But by the afternoon when he was doing it again, for seemingly no reason, I was at my wits end. 


Mindfulness and Being Present
---

Adam Coelho: But you're right, it's so easy to wish away this time or not be present or be distracted by other things, like my struggle is I have, these pursuits, entrepreneurial [00:43:00] pursuits, the podcast, the coaching program, various things that I'm working on.

And I'm very excited about them. And that seeps into my head when I'm with my kids and I'm supposed to be paying attention to them. And I'm looking at my phone. Did anyone subscribe to my email list? Ultimately, like who really cares? Like it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. And I'm like, But it's so hard to be truly present in these moments.

And honestly, the best thing that I can do that I've done is just like leave my phone behind. Like that is really helpful because it's a huge source of distraction. But I'm curious for you, like, is it again, just like awareness and noticing when you're being pulled away or like what has helped you be?

more present with your kids and in this phase of life and remembering that this is just a phase. Yeah. 

Maggie Tucker: General mindfulness to take it back to what you said of, the more you practice [00:44:00] mindfulness as a person. And I always go back to meditation because it's one of the, when people hear the term mindfulness, they sometimes don't know like, how do I become more mindful?

Like meditation is one of the number one ways there are other things too. And so just a general. I'd say improvement in my mindfulness over the past decade has helped. But you know another funny thing that has really helped? My kids are old enough to like, they're like adults now. They're like dealing with adults.

They're not like dealing with a toddler or, someone crying or screaming at you. They can't articulate. their emotions and what's happening. But my daughter in particular we're dealing with like a bunch of issues at a rental property that we own right now which we're actually about to sell tied to this because I don't want to be dealing with this junk anymore.

I'd rather just have the money in the market, whatever happens to it. And so I'm dealing with something that's time sensitive, but self imposed, because I just want to get this house on the market as quickly as possible, and, I'm doing something, and my daughter and I are watching a show that we enjoy watching together, and that, even though we're watching TV, [00:45:00] that we are, like, very engaged with and talk a lot about, And she will say, like, get off your phone, like, we're watching this, or like, even we'll be outside playing volleyball, and I'm like, oh, hang on, I just gotta, like, do this thing, and then, and she's like, why, like, and she'll even say, like, I thought you don't have a job anymore, and like, she'll get, like, check me on it, and the kids, I think, hold me very accountable to saying, as much time as I spend telling them to get off the screen, they'll say it right back to me.

When I, and often, like, the thing is that when I'm on a screen, like, I'm not just, like, scrolling social media 90 percent of the time, I'm doing something, like, I'm texting, I'm returning a text to a contractor, I'm, like, scheduling something, I'm paying a bill, whatever, and so I do a lot on my phone, so when they see me on my phone, I'm like, just to be clear, I do stuff on my phone, I'm not, like, watching a silly makeup video or whatever you're doing. But I think they, the quick answer is they hold me accountable and they remind me to be present and they notice stuff. Man, I'm [00:46:00] shocked by the stuff that they notice and pick up on that a little, sometimes little kids, like toddlers will notice stuff and pick up on stuff too. But man, 12 and like middle school and high school, like they're.

They are smart, they are like witty and funny, they have no fear in what they say to somebody, especially their parents they got like no fear, and they will just tell you what's on their mind, and it is like having a sort of a mirror back at yourself, sometimes a blurry mirror, because they are not fully developed people and they do not have the full context of the world and how it works and all of that yet, but it is like holding up a mirror to yourself.

Sometimes to have three teenager ish girls that aren't afraid to tell you what they think and what's happening. 

Adam Coelho: Sounds horrifying. Just 

Maggie Tucker: kidding. Just wait. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah. No I it, the mirror thing I resonate with a lot because [00:47:00] my son is, like a mini version of me. 

Maggie Tucker: Yeah. 

Adam Coelho: Which you would think I would be able to handle having developed some self awareness over the years, but it is very challenging.

The 

Maggie Tucker: difference is, he's a mini version of you, but he can't yet regulate his emotions. and you're supposed to be able to. And I say supposed to because like when I get told that, I'm like I'm like, I'm better at regulating my emotions, but I'm not perfect. And so that is the big difference in like dealing with kids who, he's screaming on, he doesn't know what he doesn't even know what he's feeling, he's just upset.

So he's crying and yes, it's, it is fascinating. The other thing I would say that I do to get better at that is I consume a lot of content that is reinforcing that message and so like I, I read a lot about like Buddhism and Stoicism and even, I'll get like Ryan Holiday's daily stoic emails and I read those lately and they are a very good reminder about what is [00:48:00] important to me.

in life, what's not more or more what's not important in life and, shifting it to what is important in life. And so I just have a number of, in addition to like the people in my house, a number of influences in the content that I'm consuming around me that remind me how short life is. When you have kids growing up in your house, you got like a little, ticking time bomb of, you see them growing up in front of you, you realize, we've got to start. Doing SAT prep because that's for college and we're, it's like, it's just moving fast and when you're not working, when you're working back to what we were talking about earlier, you are so overwhelmed and distracted and all consumed by that job and then just trying to get by and all the other aspects of your life when you're at home every day.

And you're early retired, and I've been pretty busy early retired. I have like a lot of volunteer roles and just a lot of commitments. I still have way more time than I used to, I see and observe much [00:49:00] more about what is happening in my home and with my kids than I saw when I was working.

So I'd say that's another big thing is like, I've just got the gift of early retirement, which is I'm more present and more engaged and have a almost daily opportunity to remind myself how short life is and why I want to lean into this phase of life and that I have another phase coming up and, I can, I think when you have like something to look, I sound bad because I'm not saying I'm like looking forward to my kids leaving, But I am looking forward to being able to do some, like, longer term travel and, like, go spend a month in one town in Italy and not moving every three days.

And there are things I'm looking forward to in the next phase of life, but I'm really trying to, like, push them off and recognize, like, I won't be able to get this phase back. And so that is just a daily remind, almost daily reminder, I'd say, I give myself. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of great points there.

[00:50:00] And the last thing I'll say on this is just this, it always, In the moment, it feels like, Oh yeah, I just got to do this one thing. He's my son's like, Hey dad, get off your phone. Like we're doing this. I want to show you this thing. And I'm like, wow, this is just this one little email off to this person.

And it's like, to him, it's meaningless. right? And to your daughter, your bill pay, you paying bills or you responding to the contractor is as meaningless as you think her makeup video is, right? That is very 

Maggie Tucker: true. Yes. 

Adam Coelho: It's ultimately either way, it's pulling you out of the moment. It's pulling you away from, and I say you, I mean us, it's pulling us away from being present with what is happening for our kids, that they.

think is important enough to tell us right now and like you said there's going to be a time where he's not going to want to tell me these things anymore. He's not going to care to tell me and if I don't, if I stop responding to him, he's going to stop asking. [00:51:00] 

Maggie Tucker: Yeah, that's a, that is a great point.

And it almost doesn't matter what the retort back is of what I'm doing on my phone. It's like, get off your phone. You just got a reminder, get off your phone and go do that thing. That thing, sometimes something can't wait, but a lot of times something can wait. 

Adam Coelho: Most of the time it can. Cool. So Maggie, let's shift gears now into the mindful fire final four. Are you ready? 

Maggie Tucker: I'm ready. 

Adam Coelho: All right. So the first question, I'm switching it up today a little bit. It's always about envisioning, but I've been on this kick now where I'm really adamant that you shouldn't wait till you reach financial independence to figure out and start living the life that you dream of living.

And so I'm curious, As you were on the path to financial independence and approaching, the financial goal, how did you start figuring out what you wanted your life to look like? [00:52:00] How did you start living your post Fi life on the path to financial independence?

Maggie Tucker: That's a great question. I would say there were two things, two big things, other than just thinking about it. all the time, like almost obsessively. It's where my mind would always wander to. The first one was COVID. So COVID was, a tragic thing in many ways, or in most of the ways, I guess you could say, because many people lost their lives, and it was a very stressful time in the world.

And it had, I don't want to discount the lasting impacts, negative impacts it has had on many people in this world. For us, it was We all of a sudden had a lot of time at home with our families, working remote with our kids. Our kids were, essentially like homeschooled for over a year.

And we could go on walks in the middle of the day. We, like things were crazy on and off at work throughout that time period. But we were home every day. [00:53:00] We didn't have commutes anymore. We had a lot more time in many ways, most of the time, if you take a step back. And so COVID gave us like a little bit of test life of what more freedom and flexibility would look like in our lives.

And we loved it. And we retired in May of 2022. So it was, I can't even remember all the like stages of COVID, but like, it was actually right as both of our offices were like going back to like wanting you to be in the office, like a serious amount of time in person. It was good timing, but. I gave like almost nine months notice to my company, so for that like almost year before that, I knew that we were going to retire and I was working, I was pretty much mostly working remote all the time. And so we just, the point is we had a like a little baby test case of what early retirement life could look like and just a lot more being at home and being closer to the kids schools and able to like run over and, attend some program or do something.

So that was really nice. [00:54:00] And then also I heard this concept from the Bucket Yourself podcast, the actual person, the people, Chris and Deb, who run that podcast. But The concept of a bucket list. And so I started a bucket list. So every time I had all these like wild hair thoughts of all these things I wish I had time to do.

Which man, if I had started this like all the time, from when I was younger, it would have been like even longer. But I had like hundreds of things. I still have hundreds of things. I've only scratched the surface of my retirement bucket list. But every time I would have an idea from I want to repaint my deck myself to, and it's a big deck to be clear, it's not like a little job, to I want to learn how to play the guitar, to I want to learn Akito, just all of these different, work, like podcast ideas, fun stuff, travel ideas, all sorts of things.

I would go and put them on my early retirement bucket list. So I knew I was going to be like, I have way more [00:55:00] stuff to do and ideas for things to do than I had time to do in the day, which has definitely been the case. But those to me would be the two biggest things that kind of helped me figure out and plan for and like know.

what I wanted to do and how I wanted to spend my time and that I was going to be okay and have lots to do. 

Adam Coelho: yeah, you answered the question of how did you start testing and living into your post fi life while you were on the path and approaching the goal.

And so yeah, COVID gave you more space and time to do that. 

And then building a list of the things that you wanted to do as a bucket list makes a ton of sense. And also, by the way, I love Chris and Deb. And had them on my podcast as well.

And actually I saw Deb. I met Deb for the first time in real life at Economy. And she helped me co plan this, what I call Legends Dinner, which is basically inviting all of the cool people I [00:56:00] know in a city. This is how I used to do it when I'd travel for work. But in this case, I invited all all of them.

A bunch of random people to this dinner at economy and it turned into this unbelievable like who's who of the fire movement 

Maggie Tucker: Oh, that's awesome. I 

Adam Coelho: had deb I had brad from choose fi I had jordan, doc g of earn and invest. I had carl from Mr 1500 It was just like on and on I had amy. It was ridiculous.

That's awesome What a financial tortoise. I'm like, oh, I wish I could have been at 

Maggie Tucker: that dinner. That sounds awesome. I think 

Adam Coelho: I messaged you to see if you were going, right? Oh, yeah. That's cause I wanted to invite you to the dinner. So next, whenever it happens where we end up at the same event, we'll, I'll be doing it and you will 100 percent be on the list.

Maggie Tucker: I love the concept of a legends dinner though. I love it. 

Adam Coelho: So fun. So fun. And then I left a few spaces open, slash continued to call the restaurant and expand that reservation. Cause I would just like invite [00:57:00] people that I met along the way. That was amazing. That's awesome. 

I met this guy at one of the talks that Alan Donegan was giving and he and I were chatting and I was basically like, Hey, you've been following these blogs for 12 years.

Like, why did, why is this your first fire of that? And he said, I just, honestly, I came here to thank Carl, Mr. 1500 of 1500days. com because he really inspired me and helped me so much on my journey. And he was like, Oh, it's nice to meet you, Adam. I'm like, wonderful talking with you. I'm like, in my mind, I'm knowing that Carl's going to be at the dinner.

And I was like, dude, it's about to get way more wonderful. How would you like to have dinner with Carl? And he's like, what do you mean? I was like, yeah, I'm having a dinner and Carl's going to be there. And so anyways, this guy, Sam comes to the dinner. And There's a spot open right next to Carl and he sits next to Carl.

They hang out and talk the whole time. Carl's like the most humble guy ever. And [00:58:00] just for me to be able to create this opportunity for this guy and for Carl, like to bring them together and like create that memory for them was just like. the best thing of the whole conference for me. It's 

Maggie Tucker: really awesome.

Adam Coelho: Yeah. So super cool to be able to do that. And I look forward to doing that more in the future. 

Maggie Tucker: Yeah. It's a great idea. 

Adam Coelho: All right, Maggie. Question number two. 


Advice for Financial Independence Seekers
---

Adam Coelho: what piece of advice would you give to someone early on their path to financial independence?

Maggie Tucker: I think, the biggest piece of advice I'd give now, I have no idea what I said back then, it'd be fun to compare, is You know, it doesn't have to look one way it doesn't have to be that you do what I did, which was suck it up and work 20 years and save it all and then not plan to ever work again. I'll never really know and I try not to spend too much energy thinking about it, but, it could have looked cool to take some year off sabbaticals and [00:59:00] get back into the workforce and have, these moments where I spent a year with my kids when they were younger and it would have been a totally different experience than what it is now.

And. So it just doesn't need to look one way. You can have all these mini retirements. You can take sabbaticals every few years. You can work part time. You can, there's just, I think a lot of people are looking at other people for some, like, formula or answer. And I think, my biggest piece of advice would probably be take the time to really look inside yourself and think about what works for you and then know that you can change it a million times and evolve and experiment and pivot and all that, but there isn't one formula or one path that, you can figure out.

And you can design your own path and your own life to be whatever you want it to be and then redesign it as you learn more. [01:00:00] 

Adam Coelho: Absolutely. I think, yeah, I think that has come through loud and clear here. It's like you, you can pivot at any time. And yeah I, Resonate a lot with the looking outside of myself at other people for the answers But really anytime I've made any sort of progress in my life, it's because I've asked myself What do I really want and trusting learning to trust myself and what I think and what I feel and following that and creating and learning and pivoting as I go.

Yeah. So thank you for sharing that. I don't, that's never come up on this, but I think it's really important. 


Getting Started with Meditation
---

Adam Coelho: So Maggie, question number three is, what piece of advice would you give to someone getting started with meditation and or mindfulness?

Maggie Tucker: honey, I was going to say maybe similar to my last piece of advice, but just get started. Like start small. Don't overwhelm yourself. I did like, I went to like a training class for transcendental meditation, which I really [01:01:00] enjoyed and was, I think actually worth the money if you have it.

But you also, there's a ton of free resources and don't, and I was going to say that, the type of meditation I learned in practice is in the end a 46 minute practice every day. It's two 23 minute meditations. That was really overwhelming to me even at that point in my life. Like I remember telling the guy like, you don't have, he didn't have kids and I was like, okay you go have some kids and talk to me about 46 minutes every day.

But I didn't. But it doesn't have to be, there isn't one formula to do it. There's a lot of best practices out there, and there's a lot of approaches and practices, if you will, but if the best you can do is to sit quietly and close your eyes for, a minute a day to start, or five minutes a day, or just every time you're really stressed and feeling all these feelings and getting hot and heated up, then you can Just sit there for a minute and close your eyes and breathe and even just what you did at the very beginning of this podcast, Adam, you just took like one deep breath, I [01:02:00] was watching one of the kids teammates who is a really good server, volleyball server this weekend.

And I, and she has a whole, a lot of volleyball servers have like a routine they do. I think, I'm not as big of a fan of baseball, but I think like baseball players maybe do this. It's just like a certain thing they do every time before they go up to bat. I feel like I've heard that. Maybe I made that up.

Adam Coelho: Basketball players do it at the free throw line too. Oh, 

Maggie Tucker: okay. Yeah. That makes sense. So they'll do it. I almost can like do this girl's exact move of like what she, like the number of like arm pumps she does first. But she's a fantastic server, and I noticed she takes a really big, deep breath before she does any of it.

And like, that is, that's seconds in your day, and that is a way to get started, right? And so I think my biggest piece of advice would just be, Don't get overwhelmed by all of the different things you're going to hear out there and scare yourself away from getting started. Just start small and build up and as you start to see and notice and realize the benefits, [01:03:00] keep going and build it up and do more and do better.

as you can, for what fits into your life. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah, said. 


Connecting with Maggie and Final Thoughts
---

Adam Coelho: And the final question, Maggie, is how can people connect with you online, learn more about your podcast, Inside Out Money, and just follow what you're up to? 

Maggie Tucker: Yeah, the, this is the easiest question I can answer today, Adam. Inside Out Money podcast is available Anywhere you listen to podcasts.

So you can search it up as the kids say. And you can go to my website, which is insideoutmoney. org. You can follow me. I'm most active on Instagram, which is at insideoutmoney on Instagram. And it's probably the best way if you want to like engage with me, Instagram's probably the best way, but also just listen to the podcast.

It's free podcast. We don't have ads. That is one of my gifts back to people. that I can do is it will, my goal is for it to always remain ad free and just be [01:04:00] a fun podcast talking about different financial mindsets and tactics. 

Adam Coelho: Very cool. We'll link all that up in the show notes and people can go check that out.

Thank you so much for being here, Maggie. I absolutely love this kind of update episode focusing on the eight lessons that you learned two years into early retirement. And I think it's a perfect compliment to our Last episode, which will, if you haven't heard it yet, you can go back and listen to it.

It's the episode right before this. Thanks again, Maggie. 

Maggie Tucker: Yeah. Thank you, Adam. I really enjoyed this conversation too. And me even like re talking about these eight things helps like remind me of what's important. Back to some of your questions on like, how do I stay on top of this? Like this conversation helps me stay on top of it.

So I appreciate you initiating it and having it with me. 

Adam Coelho: My pleasure.