Google Layoff to Globally Work Optional with Erika Ho (ep 236)

Erika’s Google Layoff and Life Reset

Speaker 0:05

Welcome to the Mindful Fire Podcast, a show about crafting a life you love and making work optional using the tools of mindfulness, envisioning, and financial independence. I'm your host, Adam Coelho, and I'm so glad you're here. Each episode of the Mindful Fire Podcast explores these three tools through teachings, guided meditations, and inspiring interviews with people actually living them to craft a life they love. If you're ready to start your Mindful Fire journey, go to mindfulfire.org/start and download my free envisioning guide. In just 10 minutes, this guide will help you craft a clear and inspiring vision for your life. Again, you can download it for free at mindfulfire.org/start. Let's jump into today's episode

Adam Coelho 1:07

Erika, welcome to the Mindful Fire Podcast. I'm thrilled to have you here.

Erika Ho 1:10

I'm so excited to be here.

Adam Coelho 1:13

I know we've been looking at making this one happen for a while, so I'm really excited to have you here. You're a former Google colleague of mine, though we didn't really know each other at the time. but I am so happy to have you here, and to explore your journey to work optional status. let's start there. Let's start with you sharing with the audience a little bit about who you are, your journey, and what you're up to.

Erika Ho 1:33

Yeah. Before, starting my own business, I've been in marketing analytics for about 10 years. yeah, and I was at Google, as you mentioned, in 2021, and I got my dream job as a Google data scientist. when I got there, for whatever reason, I was feeling really unfulfilled and really unhappy, and so eventually I got laid off from Google January 2024. and I was able to, pause and, re-envision what my life could look like, and then I ended up pivoting into financial coaching and helping people with, financial independence retire early.

Adam Coelho 2:13

Got it. And so talk to me about that moment where you were laid off and, sounded like you were disillusioned with things that were happening. And I guess, yeah, walk me through what that experi- experience was like actually getting laid off.

Erika Ho 2:26

Yeah. So I would say when I got laid off, I had two sort of emotions happening. So the first emotion was just, the feeling of, a lot of stress because actually in May of 2023, my husband got laid off from Meta. So actually, before he got laid off from Meta, I had, considered quitting Google. I wanted to do something different, but then he got laid off and so I was like, "Okay, I need to stay on

Becoming Globally Work Optional

Erika Ho 2:54

for the family, pay our bills." And so when I got laid off from Google, the second thing that I felt, which I wonder if other people feel too, is relief. I felt like I don't have to pretend anymore. I can be authentic with myself. I can, live a different life that I've been envisioning

Adam Coelho 3:16

Yeah. I, the word pre- the relief and pretending really stand out to me because that... Yeah, I, it feels like a lot of people are pretending, and not, no knock on anyone, Yes. They're doing what they need to do to provide for their family. They're working, they're earning, and but at some point it's like we're pretending like we really care about these ads, And these things- that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Yeah. so it feels like a lot of pretending, and then, yeah, when the layoff happens, there is a sense of relief, to some people, And I think probably that, the financial situation dictates whether there is a relief or a m- immense stress, There could be dread as well. At what point did you realize, work optional was actually a possibility?

Erika Ho 4:01

Yeah. I was actually in Taiwan on a family trip. this was act- after I had been laid off. I started my own business, and I took a break to go to Taiwan with my family. And while I was enjoying Taiwan and feeling "Wow, this feels like home, the food is amazing, the culture is familiar, and, like, all my family is here," I felt oh,

Financial Resilience, FU Money, and Envisioning

Erika Ho 4:27

I could really see myself moving here and retiring. And that's when it hit me 'cause, while I was there, I was like, wait a second. If I hit my Taiwan fire number, in some sense I am work optional. I call it globally work optional in the sense that at any given point in time, if I want to stop working, I can. I can move to Taiwan or, Portugal is another fire number that we hit recently. that I can stop working now if I want to. and that was, like, a huge aha moment for me, and I remember, I was like, "I gotta calculate my Taiwan fire number right now," and I was like, "Wait, we've hit it," and I think when you realize that at any given point you can retire now, you start to take bolder moves in the life that you're already living, And I was like, you know what? I... be- before I was like, oh, should I do my financial coaching business? Should I go back to corporate? And knowing that I hit work optional status gave me the clarity and the courage to be like, you know what? I'm going all in on my business. I'm going to help people with their fire journeys.

Adam Coelho 5:35

Yeah, that's very cool. That's very cool. And I wanna get into the global, globally work optional concept a little bit more. But one of the things I thought of as you were talking about the layoff and... is really this realization that I had recently when I was a guest on Choose FI. I was preparing for Choose FI, and I had this realization that we all feel like we are in control of when we choose to retire. But in reality, in today's world and economy, that might not be true, The decision might be made for us, like it was for you, like it was for me. There's a lot of different ways that you could be forced into this next chapter, and it's really important to be ready. And one of the things that is critical is having FU money in the bank, Yes. Having that financial resilience. Finan- I rank them as financial resilience is essentially, you need to have it, I would consider that having an emergency fund and knowing how much your life costs and what you could cut if you need to, and things like that. Next level is, on the path to financial independence- all the different variations of that. But that is only part of the picture, in my opinion. The other part is knowing where you're going, Because if you get laid off and you have the money, great. You ha- you've got the time where you don't need to freak out and take the first job that comes across your desk. But it's a lot more powerful, and you can actually create a life on your terms if you know what you want and where you're going. So I guess my question is- What was your vision for, as, you didn't know you were gonna be laid off. you knew... I assume you knew it was a possibility, I remember those days where last year at January, in 2023, they laid off 12,000 people in the middle of the night. I was anticipating that happening again in January 2024, fully ready to feel that sense of relief myself, and I was not included in the thing. But did you have a sense for what you would do if that was happening and what you were building towards, or did that emerge after the fact?

Erika Ho 7:39

Yeah, I would say, when

From Therapy Path to Financial Coaching

Erika Ho 7:42

I was feeling really unhappy at Google, I kept thinking like, "This is not the life I wanna live. This is not the life I wanna live." And yeah, we talked about this earlier, but I was in one of Adam's, life envisioning workshops. And during the workshop, I found it super powerful because, I was able to step out of the stuck mindset of "I have to do this. I have to be a data scientist at Google. I have to make this work." And I was introduced the idea of "Okay, what if life could look different?" And so it was in one of those workshops where I envisioned "Oh, maybe I want to become a therapist," And that was like a very emotional moment for me because I was like, "Oh, I, I want a different life," and so when I got laid off, it gave me an opportunity to pause and think about what is the life I wanna build. Yeah. And previously at Google when I went on medical leave, I had explored the possibility of becoming a therapist. I applied for grad school. I got in. I got the scholarship. Ultimately decided to not go down that path, but the process of discerning becoming a therapist actually helped me to get to my current career as a financial coach because I realized that, personal finance is really simple, Of you spend less, you make more, And you invest the difference. But the interesting part about financial coaching is the psychology element, Of like everyone is so different in the way that they view money, their relationship with money. So it makes everything feel new versus "Oh, this is the same advice over and over," Yeah. so yeah, it was ki- like I had an idea of what I wanted to do, but it was when I got laid off where I had the opportunity to think about it, more. And I remember I was actually chatting with one of my friends and I was like, "You know what? I would love to help people with their personal finances."

Balancing Achievement, Hustle, and Rest

Erika Ho 9:44

And she was like, "Oh, sign me up." And that was my first client.

Adam Coelho 9:48

There you go. I love that. that's fantastic. first, that was so cool to hear that you were in one of my workshops. I, I'm glad that space was helpful for you to consider something different, And you didn't ultimately become a therapist, but that's the thing about it. First off, m- very few people ever sit down to give themselves space and time to think, What do I actually want?" And then when they actually do, they are thinking within the constraints of their current reality. I'm a data scientist. I work in tech. So what are the opportunities within that? But you can set all of those aside and consider all of the possibilities. Becoming a therapist. I know a friend of mine that I worked with early on at Google, she left Google and became a therapist. she is a therapist now. and obviously that's a ton of work to do, but the thing is that if you don't ever stop running and... or sprinting if you work at a place like Google-

Erika Ho 10:41

Yeah

Adam Coelho 10:41

you never have the chance to think what else could be. And I'm so glad that you did that, and I'm so glad that you're in this next chapter and building this business. I think you said you've been doing this for a year and a half. And, are there any, any lessons that you had over that year and a half, I'm sure there are many, but are, about the tension between Achievement and allowing and forcing and relaxing and, 'cause, you know anyone who's listened to this podcast has heard me say a million times that my vision was always to build a business in my own time, in my own way. But I find it so hard to let go of the achievement mindset that has gotten me to this point, and I think a lot of people feel that as well, and that's why it's so hard for people to let go of what they know to step into the next chapter. So I guess, yeah, what were the, how did you balance that tension? What were the lessons that you had in balancing that?

Erika Ho 11:33

Yeah, I'm still balancing that, to be honest, because it's strange. Like I've hit work optional status. I could stop working if I want to, but there's another part of me that's hustle, hustle." Push, push, push. And it's so interesting because, yeah, when you're at Google or, when you're in tech, you have that constant push through like your managers, through the business, and externally, And it's hard when you go into entrepreneurship because you're used to that pushing. You're used to the deadlines, and then you realize when you're working for yourself like, "Wait a second, I'm the boss."

Adam Coelho 12:13

I get to decide.

Erika Ho 12:14

I get to decide, And, like little things like my best friend, she went on maternity leave recently, and last week we went to San Francisco just to relax. And actually we went to the Google building that I used to work in. and yeah, just like taking that time off, part of me was like, "Oh, you should be doing more work. You can push harder." But then I was "Screw that." I want to spend time with my best friend, and I want to enjoy the life that I've built for myself. so yeah, that's still like a constant struggle, I feel.

Adam Coelho 12:51

Yeah. I feel that so much as well. 'cause yeah, My brain wants to tell me, "You should be further along. You should be doing more. Send another email," And it's at some- sometimes you just need to relax and rest, Like I was telling you that I was in, in New York last, yesterday all day, from... I left the house at 8:40 AM and I came back at 11:30 PM. Me in New York, i- it's all or nothing, Like I can't help it. But, and today, I am exhausted. I am, this conversation's bringing me alive, but I have felt very tired. and I've been like, I gotta follow up with the people from yesterday. I gotta remember all the amazing things I learned from all those amazing people. I gotta get back to this person who's a prospective client." And it's Yeah, maybe, but your body's telling you need to rest, and so can you allow yourself to do that? And that has been, that's been the biggest tension I've felt, the striving versus w- just enjoying. and so that's a big shift that I made from last year year one of early retirement to year two was optimizing

Taiwan, Portugal, and Global FIRE Options

Adam Coelho 13:56

for money, switching to optimizing for connection and fun. And, last year I spent a lot of time just, behind a keyboard, telling myself, "If you just send one more email, people will hire you for workshops." And I did a few workshops, but I realized I spent the whole year doing sales and marketing. I love facilitation, and I don't mind sales and marketing. It's fine. I'm not very good at it, so it's, it's hard to do and it's uncomfortable. do I wanna spend my next year like that or do I want to choose a different path? And that's why I'm now focused more on community building and connection and group coaching because it's just fun. even when the conversations don't result in somebody joining the program, I just enjoy talking to people about their dreams and their plans for the future and h- the wealth that they've built that is giving them the ability to do this, Last year I was talking about reorgs, And I love facilitating these experiences for teams who need to get aligned, but do I love selling and talking about reorgs? Not so much. So I get to choose, and I get to adapt, on the way. I

Erika Ho 14:59

love that.

Adam Coelho 15:00

So let's get back to this idea of globally work optional, Sounds like you've actually done the math for Taiwan and Portugal. So what does that exercise look like?

Erika Ho 15:11

Yeah. I think, first of all, in order to be globally work optional, I feel like you gotta visit the country,

Adam Coelho 15:18

That would help.

Erika Ho 15:19

And see, yeah, see what the vibes are. And I think these two places have a really special place in my heart. Taiwan because of the family connection, Portugal because I did a 365 Days to Fire program, and, a lot of the people in that program are moving to Portugal and retiring early, So I think, like going to those places really opens up your horizons of what the possibilities could be like. yeah. So I think, that is like first is do you feel a special connection there? Could you see yourself, living there, And then once you have that and you're like, "Wow, I really love this place," then you go into the numbers, Then you calculate, what does housing look like in this place? something that I did was I had a friend, a college friend, who lived in Taiwan. So while I did do research online on like how much does, an apartment cost per month, I also asked her, like, how much is she paying, And then I was like, "Oh, this is actually in line with what I'm seeing in the research online." Yeah. So you wanna validate-

Adam Coelho 16:24

with real people

Erika Ho 16:25

with real people. Yeah. real numbers, So I think, going through those calculations yourself, but then doing research and stuff like that, to ask people who are actually there, what do they actually spend per month?

Adam Coelho 16:37

I like it. So what does it cost to retire in Portugal? I'd like to know. As someone who is Portuguese and loves Portugal. And also am a citizen of Portugal.

Erika Ho 16:47

Oh, that's amazing.

Adam Coelho 16:50

Yeah. So I have... It's a real possibility.

Erika Ho 16:51

Yeah, it varies for everyone, but I would say, for example, in, if you were to wanna retire in the Bay Area, and do, Fat FIRE, it might cost, 3 million, 5 million. Some people have even said 10 million, Yeah. But then Portugal is something more accessible, less than a million, or a little bit more, It's so much more accessible- and so much more possible for the average, person, So I think, realizing that we've hit those numbers at such a young age is just, surreal. It's wow. I could retire now if I wanted to. And it actually makes you love the work that you do now because you get to focus on what you love in your business, and I think that makes such a difference in terms of even the sales conversations you have, Because if I was still like, "Oh, I wanna hit my Bay Area Five- FIRE number," then I would feel a lot more, hustle mentality in trying to sell to clients. But when I have that work optional mindset, I'm like, "Okay," "let's see if they're actually a good fit." I don't have to sign on this client if I don't want to, And it gives you that sense of freedom and ease to not have to, convert them into clients,

Adam Coelho 18:10

Yeah, I'm familiar with with the pressure that we put on ourselves. definitely. and so I guess when you say you're work optional, You're work optional in the Bay Area or are you work optional in Taiwan and Portugal?

Coast FI and the Holy Path to FI

Erika Ho 18:23

So work

Adam Coelho 18:24

optional- you currently right now.

Erika Ho 18:26

Yeah. Currently right now I'm work optional in Taiwan and Portugal. we do have family in the Bay Area, and, we could potentially stay with them. So technically, if we wanted to be work optional in the Bay Area, we could be, if we were to stay with family. But we're not work optional in the sense of having my own, our current place, Like our current condo in the Bay Area, that would be closer to a fat FIRE number versus something like a lean FIRE number where you like live with family or something like that. But I think having multiple options in your FIRE journey is really important, Because, yeah, we don't wanna stay with family, but if for whatever reason we don't like Portugal and we don't like Taiwan and we need a place to stay temporarily to reset and figure out where we wanna go to next, then that gives you options. So we're very grateful to have lots of options

Adam Coelho 19:25

Got it. Okay, interesting. Yeah, so and I think you... I believe you're also Coast FI?

Erika Ho 19:30

Yeah, I am-

Adam Coelho 19:30

FI. Got it. And so just for everyone, you can explain how you think about that and what that is.

Erika Ho 19:35

Yeah. So Coast FI, how I explain it is when people kind of front load their investments early on, so they try and invest as much money as they can early on, and then they can pause retirement savings if they want to, and let that money grow and compound over time, so when you hit traditional age of 65... age of retirement at 65, you have plenty for retirement. So we actually hit Coast FI in our 20s. and we actually didn't think much of it at the time. We were like, "Oh, this is cool," But it was only after I started watching, Andy Hill. Have you heard of Andy Hill and the- Yep, yep personal finance-

Adam Coelho 20:13

Marriage, Kids, and Money.

Erika Ho 20:14

Marriage, Kids, and Money, yeah. I started watching his podcast and s- he started interviewing people that have hit Coast FI and what they're doing differently, and I was amazed because these people were paying off their mortgage early. They were working part-time

Making Global FIRE Real Through Experiments

Erika Ho 20:29

or quitting their jobs and becoming entrepreneurs. And I was like, "Wait a minute," "I've hit this number. Why am I not changing my life," so I've created my own variation of Coast FI called Holy Path to FI. So that's after you hit Coast FI and you transit- you transition from your traditional corporate career into a career that you feel is meaningful to you, that feels like a calling, and you start to build the life that you wanna live, rather than waiting until you hit your Fat FI number, You can start living the life that you want to now. So yeah, we are- Yeah Cal- California Coast FI as well.

Adam Coelho 21:04

There you go. There you go. It's interesting because this idea of you could be retired if you lived elsewhere certainly has popped into my mind. I assume it's popped into everyone's mind, I could be retired in Chiang Mai, Thailand- right now. Like everyone... I feel like anyone who's entrepreneurial has had that dream of and heard about other entrepreneurs, like digital nomading from like Thailand, sounds great. Yeah. obviously it depends on your lifestyle. Right now it doesn't sound so great for me with two kids, but that's, that's a different story. But I guess like- Is it just like a pipe dream for people, 'Cause most people, y- you're doing your own, you're building your own business, you're living very intentionally. I think most people who have this thought are sitting in a cubicle wishing they could retire in Chiang Mai, Thailand, but that's a long way away. So I guess, what, do you advise people? Like, how do you make this real for them, this concept of globally work optional? How do you make this real for people that it's not just like a pipe dream and they can actually be like, "Oh, yeah." And I think one of the things you said is like, "Go visit the place and see if you actually like it," 'cause without that, who cares about the math? Yeah. Doesn't matter. So I'm really glad you said that. But yeah, any thoughts on that?

Erika Ho 22:19

Yeah. So something me and my husband, are dreaming of doing is, not just visit, like for a week and then be like, "Yeah, I'm gonna live here," But spend an extended period of time there. Spend like a month there, two months there, if you can afford it, And I think then you'll be, one, collecting data for like the numbers that you actually

Purpose, Calling, and What the Money Is For

Erika Ho 22:41

need to re- maybe recalculate your FIRE number. But then also actually living there as a local versus a tourist, Because I think sometimes people think "Oh, I'm just gonna be a tourist, like all day every day." And I'm like, "That's not what you're gonna actually do in your day-to-day life," So spend a month there to see, can I see myself living here long term? Yeah. Yeah. So that's something we're aiming to do. Yeah.

Adam Coelho 23:11

Got it. So test it out, try it on.

Erika Ho 23:13

Try it out. I come from a data analytics background. Collect more data.

Adam Coelho 23:16

There you go. That's right. Always good to collect more data. Yeah, that I would call that like a mini experiment. Yeah. That one's a big... That's more of a experiment. It's not really mini, in another country for f- several months is not really a mini experiment, but it ki- it, it is important to try on before you just leave everything behind and go move to the other side of the world. Yeah, one of the women I was speaking with last night, she's going to Italy and Spain for six weeks. Nice. And she's just gonna be working from there and hanging out there. I'm like, That sounds awesome." That sounds really awesome. you've mentioned a few times this idea of a calling and how financial coaching you've really stepped into it as a calling. when I think about calling, purpose, mission, meaning, I feel like they're all siblings, And, when I think about my purpose, It's really connecting people with themselves, each other, and their biggest vision for life. That's why I do what I do, and why I'm spending my early retirement, pursuing this business because I want to bring this to more people, and real- help them realize what you were saying before is you don't need to wait to live the life that you want, Yeah. You don't even need to leave your job to l- live the life that you want. Yeah. But you do need to know what you want. Yes. And most people don't do that. They don't make... They don't give themself the time or the space to figure out what they want, and so they just keep floating through life. And so getting back to this calling and mission, I feel this urge to help empower a generation of people. I think of, my kids' generation, I want to empower that generation to live life on their terms however they want with the tools of mindful fire. Mindfulness- Mm-hmm that creates self-awareness. Financial independence creates financial resilience, financial freedom, the ability to do what you want, pays for the life that you want. Envisioning helps you figure out what you want and move towards it using, the concept of planting seeds in your mind using how your brain works, and resilience helps you c- overcome the obstacles along the way that will certainly come up. And so I, I love that, and I'm slowly moving towards that. But I guess, yeah, like- How does this come up in your work with people, 'Cause it sounds like you help them with the money to some degree. But you also help them with the money mindset, and probably, what it's all for, So i- does that come up in your work, like helping people find that calling and- any advice for people there?

Erika Ho 25:44

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think, for some of my clients it's not just about hitting the numbers. Hitting the numbers is one part of the financial independence journey, but it's realizing now that I've hit coast FIRE, or now that I've hit work- globally work optional status, what is the life that I wanna build? So I did have a client, start taking architecture classes. She's looking into getting a master's, And, one other client is thinking about moving to Europe and, doing, sculpting and stuff like that. So I would say in terms of advice I would give for people that want to start envisioning their life is to actually, get quiet is what I say. Is, go on a walk in nature, Take some time off, even if it's, an hour off or a week off, or a day off. and one thing that I say is God speaks in whispers, So when you have too much noise in your life, you're just, stressed, busy, overwhelmed, It's impossible in survival mode to know what you want, because you're just in survival mode, And the brain, can only be creative once you've come out of the survival mode. Think about it, if a lion is chasing you, You're not gonna be dreaming

Mindful FIRE Final Four

Erika Ho 27:05

about, like moving to Portugal or something like that, You're just gonna be like, "How do I get out of this situation right away?"

Adam Coelho 27:11

Yeah.

Erika Ho 27:12

But once you're able to, do meditation like you said, or be mindful, that you can actually think about what are the other possibilities that you didn't think about before. So I would say, get quiet and, allow yourself to dream and to envision what life would look like.

Adam Coelho 27:34

Yeah, I love that. obviously that's what I'm all about. So yeah, I lo- I love that. Just I always tell people to take all of the constraints, all of the ideas of what's realistic, rational, possible, whatever, just put it in a little box, set it to the side, and dream big. what do you really want? And people, if they wanna do this exercise for themselves, I have a, an exercise that they can download at mindfullfire.org/start, and that gives them the core exercise from all the workshops and coaching that I do that really gives you the chance to think, "If everything went really well, what does life look like? What does it feel like?" And that space to dream is so important. So let's shift gears now into what I call the mindful FIRE final four. Are you ready, Erika?

Erika Ho 28:17

Yes, I'm ready.

Adam Coelho 28:18

Okay. So first question is all about envisioning, We've talked about it a few times. We've talked about the calling, we've talked about all these reasons for actually figuring out what the money is for. And for you, I'm curious, when you think five years out, everything's gone better than expected, what does that big vision look like?

Erika Ho 28:38

Yeah. So actually, Financial Coach Mastermind, a group that I'm a part of, we have something called the CEO Retreat where we spend two days visioning the future that we want for ourself. And one of the prompts is what is your three-year vision. And when I did that vision, surprisingly, I didn't think about "Oh, what are my revenue goals that I wanna hit?" what are those like milestones I wanna hit? When I was in that meditation reflection mode, I dreamed of being in somewhere in Europe, Like I am at a cafe, I am taking my day slow to, journal, to reflect, maybe do some client work and coach some clients, and then just take a walk and stuff like that. So I envision my life to be more intentional and slow-paced. not like how it is in the Bay Area where everything is like super fast-paced, But I envision a slower life.

Adam Coelho 29:43

And how, how far off are you from living that? Or are you already living it?

Erika Ho 29:47

Yeah. So right now, like ever since I did that vision, I'm trying to apply that in my life now despite the challenges, after lunch sometimes I'll do what's called like a walk with God where I'll listen to praise music and just walk around the neighborhood and enjoy nature, And what's really interesting is when I'm in those walks, I have the best ideas. I have let's say I'm trying to make a decision about something related to my business. then I get clarity. So I think trying to slow down and take a walk in the middle of the day where the sun is shining, the trees are beautiful, I think, that is maybe like a hint or a picture of that overall three-year vision

Adam Coelho 30:36

I like it. I like it. Very cool. the second question is, what piece of advice would you give to someone early on their path to financial independence? Right up your alley.

Erika Ho 30:46

Ooh, yeah. I would say get clear on your why. Yeah. Because I think, on the journey to financial independence, it can be really challenging at times, you might want to, splurge more or you might want to spend money, traveling. And you should still spend money traveling, But there is a point in time where you need to save a lot and invest a lot, So I think if you can get clear on your why and why you wanna pursue FIRE

How to Connect With Erika Ho

Erika Ho 31:18

in the flir- first place, that will give you the energy to sustain that journey.

Adam Coelho 31:24

Yeah, that makes sense. okay. The third question is, what piece of advice would you give to someone getting started with meditation and/or mindfulness?

Erika Ho 31:32

Ooh, advice for meditation or mindfulness. I think sometimes there's, a lot of different meditations out there, and you can maybe feel, a little bit overwhelmed with, oh, which one do I do? do I do the box breathing? Do I do, this type of meditation? But I think, starting it simple. I remember, doing, a very simple meditation, which is, breathe in, breathe out, Breathe in, breathe out, And I think keep it, keeping it simple is something that I would advise people do to do. and of course you can, look up other meditations to guide you through it, but yeah, I think keeping it simple and not wanting to overcomplicate it. Yeah.

Adam Coelho 32:17

Absolutely. Yeah, I always tell people it's not about how much meditation you do, it's about consistently doing the amount that you'll actually do.

Erika Ho 32:25

Absolutely.

Adam Coelho 32:26

so Erika, the final question is, how can people connect with you online, learn more about the financial coaching that you do, and all the great things that you're working on?

Erika Ho 32:35

Yeah. So I have a free resource on my website. It's called the Layoff Checklist. So whether, you just got laid off, or you're in your job right now and you're afraid of getting laid off, this has a step-by-step, checklist to make sure you can prepare yourself financially, but also in other ways. so it's on my website, holypahtofire.com, under Resources, and you can download it there. you can also find me on LinkedIn. yeah, you can type my full name, Erika Ho, on LinkedIn. I'm really active on LinkedIn. I also have, an Instagram and YouTube that are Holy Path to FIRE. so you can find me there as well.

Adam Coelho 33:19

Okay, fantastic. We'll link all of that in the show notes so that they can click right over to you. thank you so much for being here, Erika. Really appreciate it, and, it's been awesome.

Erika Ho 33:28

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.